This article makes me think about my youth, and the fact that there weren’t cell phones with reservation apps and no cell phone cameras for photographing when you were at the location (thank god) and we paid with cash. A feeling of total anonymity. No way to track spending and behavior, etc. I feel fortunate to have experienced that.
Decent size restaurant Bars, with or without resy, who discourage drinks only guests during dinner hour, I scratch off my list. Those are usually the bars where no standees are allowed either. I get no standees with a place like Attaboy, but in a good size bar that removes the possibility of chance encounters or groups of friends stopping in for a quick one even without stools available. A great bar flirts with chaos, at times seeming out of control and that is the place where you find the great bartenders . The bartenders who rein in the beast periodically and keep the place fun without being dangerous.
Actually, Attaboy does have “standees” now. I’ve been there a number of times when they have several people standing at the back bar, and once I was invited to stand back near the rest rooms (not my favorite spot).
I have mixed feelings. By far, I prefer just dropping in to a favorite bar without having to reserve ahead. And there is nothing like being a recognized regular. But, on the other hand, I'm really OVER the idea of waiting on line outside a bar for more than a few minutes, so I don't mind the reservation systems. I think some of the problem is caused by the existence of the "best bars" lists: I find that in some of these bars, the idea of being a "regular" has become a thing of the past because there is always a bar-tourist ready to pop into the seat.
This is definitely a noteworthy topic. The big issue that I have accidentally discovered is that Resy makes it difficult to plan a "big night out" -- ie, making a dinner reservation followed by a separate reservation at a cocktail bar in the same night. If you try to make two reservations from the same account in the same night it automatically kicks you out of the first reservation.
Yeah, there are workarounds, like booking the reservations from separate accounts, but some situations (like planning a surprise night out with a significant other) make that solution impractical.
This is a great topic, Robert, especially with so many bar stools now being reservable. We're lucky that we might have a little juice in some spots based on being longtime regulars, but it's always odd to get that Resy email after a visit you didn't book, especially if you were never asked for your phone number directly. I guess we're all in the system.
I have so many mixed emotions about this. When I'm with friends, I want to just drop into a bar without thinking about it or planning in advance. When I go out for cocktails with my wife, I like the security of knowing that we have a spot reserved for us. I guess the best "meet in the middle solution" I've found is when the tables are booked through Resy, but the bar stools (and if there are high tops near the bar) are first come, first serve.
Yeah, not a fan. I'm starting to see this happening here in Vegas at local, off-Strip places. I usually fly solo and have always enjoyed popping in somewhere that might be packed and hostess/host tells me there's a long wait. Then I spy that one open seat at the bar and I'm in.
Now reading this today, kinda crushes my dream of one day visiting Brooklyn to try as many places that Kate, you, and BTP write about. I'll have to really do my research to plan places I can do what I've been doing since the mid-80s - pop in, enjoy, pop out.
I have to say I find all of this a bit intimidating in that if I read about a bar that looks like a place to visit it really isn't a place I'll feel welcome unless I'm already in the know. Am I the only one?
Well done on using photo of a Walter’s Double (or, as ordered by a local, “a double with”) to open the “Odds and Ends”. (Though the color balance makes the mustard look pink.)
I went to Mamaroneck High School across the street from 77 to 81 and had lunch there at least a couple of times a week, I’d estimate. (Add to that hundreds of other times over the decades, even though I haven’t lived in NY for 40 years.)
It is really the only not-all-beef hot dog I like, but remains my favorite.
Other than Walter’s, I’m pretty much a Sabrett dirty-water guy plus of course Nathan’s and Hebrew National.
I think the demand for capturing guest info could be to create a repeat customer within the app platform to connect them to businesses. That’s a good little profit move for businesses that have a profile in the app, but a bit too approachable for us cats. I’ve actually started getting notifications from open table that say “we see you like cocktails, check out these places.” I haven’t booked through those notifications but has kept me informed.
As far as it goes here in Chicago, some of the places to do app even when walk-in are high volume bars such as Three Dots & West Loop bars. The Meadowlark by Abe (ex Violet hour) actually dropped their Resy requirements a few weeks ago, walk in only. Chicago is a bit more chill compared to NYC heavy tourism & generally smaller spaces.
This topic immediately made me think of the Walker Inn, the speakeasy-ish, themed-cocktail-experience place in Koreatown here in LA that you invited me along to preview. They took reservations from the get-go, however long ago that was, but it didn’t seem to work out for them.
I remember trying to go back within a month or two of their opening and being unable to score a reservation on the app—then finally calling, getting a res that way, then showing up and finding the place half-empty during a prime hour on a weekend. It seemed that too many people were making reservations as placeholders and then not showing up, which made their 90-minute “experience” business model difficult to maintain.
In fact, they didn’t maintain it. Within a year the themed “experiences” were gone, and pretty soon the Walker Inn name (which had turned out to be ironic) was gone, too. I don’t know how much the reservation scheme had to do with the concept’s failure, but from my perspective the whole thing was sad. I wonder if it would work differently now.
Reservations make sense for a destination place that specialized in seated cocktail experiences. But you point out another confounding aspect of bar reservation systems. Often you can't get a reservation. Then, when you do get in, the place is half full with many open seats. This happened to us recently at a Greenwich Village bar. The doorman with the iPad told us there were no openings for three hours. We actually got in a half hour later (I pulled some strings) and the place was half-empty.
The information-gathering aspect you describe certainly would seem to have the benefit of helping bars build loyalty via targeted promotion. But if potential patrons (with no strings to pull 😔) get turned away because reservations are being held in half-empty bars, that doesn’t seem beneficial to anyone.
I’m sure that strategies will evolve over time, and it sounds like a lot of spots are having success. Culturally, though, something is lost when drinking and spontaneity are decoupled, and when an experience that’s traditionally been more loosely timed than a meal gets curtailed because the tyranny of an app means it’s time to turn over your table.
We do not use any res services. We do encourage guests to contact us if they intend on arriving with a large group (5 or more) and we do have a limited reservation policy, we prefer the "come and go as you please" atmosphere of a bar. Call us old fashioned - or midwesty if you must.,
Thoroughly confounded by Boo Paterson, who loves Raines Law Room and hates Resy so she....makes extra work for Raines Law Room? This is the same woman who says with a straight face: "Well, it’s because I actually do give a shit about the people who work there." If you truly did care about this bar manager, maybe you could waste less of their time by using your own 10 fingers to input your name and email address into a website, rather than making the manager do it for you every single time?
My understanding is that Paterson is a valued regular at RLR and there are no hard feelings on the part of the bar. In fact, the bar owner suggested I speak to Paterson. The question isn't the effort. The question is the principle.
Sorry to have confounded you. The Raines staff are now my friends & so a text or email from me is no more work for them. To put your mind at rest, they were delighted by my contribution to Robert’s story & hailed my ‘analog booking’ on their socials.
This article makes me think about my youth, and the fact that there weren’t cell phones with reservation apps and no cell phone cameras for photographing when you were at the location (thank god) and we paid with cash. A feeling of total anonymity. No way to track spending and behavior, etc. I feel fortunate to have experienced that.
The potential for completely anonymity when visiting a bar should never be discounted by bar owners. It is very important to many people.
and i thought this all was supposed to be considered "progress"... i'm right there with you.
"Progress" is very often a step back.
Decent size restaurant Bars, with or without resy, who discourage drinks only guests during dinner hour, I scratch off my list. Those are usually the bars where no standees are allowed either. I get no standees with a place like Attaboy, but in a good size bar that removes the possibility of chance encounters or groups of friends stopping in for a quick one even without stools available. A great bar flirts with chaos, at times seeming out of control and that is the place where you find the great bartenders . The bartenders who rein in the beast periodically and keep the place fun without being dangerous.
"A great bar first with chaos." Love that.
It's how I always felt (feel?) about EO, which (I'd forgotten) has long balanced reservations w/walk-ins.
"flirts," I mean, obv. Not "first."
Actually, Attaboy does have “standees” now. I’ve been there a number of times when they have several people standing at the back bar, and once I was invited to stand back near the rest rooms (not my favorite spot).
Thanks John, Im glad for the news. Hey even next to the rest room you've got a foot in the door, and eventually you'll meet the whole group :)
"A great bar flirts with chaos..." Brilliant.
I have mixed feelings. By far, I prefer just dropping in to a favorite bar without having to reserve ahead. And there is nothing like being a recognized regular. But, on the other hand, I'm really OVER the idea of waiting on line outside a bar for more than a few minutes, so I don't mind the reservation systems. I think some of the problem is caused by the existence of the "best bars" lists: I find that in some of these bars, the idea of being a "regular" has become a thing of the past because there is always a bar-tourist ready to pop into the seat.
Yes, lines are the flip side of that coin. No one likes waiting in line, and reservations are an easy way to circumvent that ordeal.
This is definitely a noteworthy topic. The big issue that I have accidentally discovered is that Resy makes it difficult to plan a "big night out" -- ie, making a dinner reservation followed by a separate reservation at a cocktail bar in the same night. If you try to make two reservations from the same account in the same night it automatically kicks you out of the first reservation.
That is not an aspect I had thought of. That's a frustrating situation.
Yeah, there are workarounds, like booking the reservations from separate accounts, but some situations (like planning a surprise night out with a significant other) make that solution impractical.
OpenTable is like this too. I have two accounts (using different email addresses) to work around this.
This is a great topic, Robert, especially with so many bar stools now being reservable. We're lucky that we might have a little juice in some spots based on being longtime regulars, but it's always odd to get that Resy email after a visit you didn't book, especially if you were never asked for your phone number directly. I guess we're all in the system.
It's extremely odd. And, quite frankly, off-putting. I never respond to those emails.
I have so many mixed emotions about this. When I'm with friends, I want to just drop into a bar without thinking about it or planning in advance. When I go out for cocktails with my wife, I like the security of knowing that we have a spot reserved for us. I guess the best "meet in the middle solution" I've found is when the tables are booked through Resy, but the bar stools (and if there are high tops near the bar) are first come, first serve.
Yeah, not a fan. I'm starting to see this happening here in Vegas at local, off-Strip places. I usually fly solo and have always enjoyed popping in somewhere that might be packed and hostess/host tells me there's a long wait. Then I spy that one open seat at the bar and I'm in.
Now reading this today, kinda crushes my dream of one day visiting Brooklyn to try as many places that Kate, you, and BTP write about. I'll have to really do my research to plan places I can do what I've been doing since the mid-80s - pop in, enjoy, pop out.
There are still plenty of good places that do not use reservations apps. Thank goodness.
I have to say I find all of this a bit intimidating in that if I read about a bar that looks like a place to visit it really isn't a place I'll feel welcome unless I'm already in the know. Am I the only one?
I know! It’s nice to stop by, check it out and feel the vibe. And then if you want, have a drink.
Exactly!
Well done on using photo of a Walter’s Double (or, as ordered by a local, “a double with”) to open the “Odds and Ends”. (Though the color balance makes the mustard look pink.)
I went to Mamaroneck High School across the street from 77 to 81 and had lunch there at least a couple of times a week, I’d estimate. (Add to that hundreds of other times over the decades, even though I haven’t lived in NY for 40 years.)
It is really the only not-all-beef hot dog I like, but remains my favorite.
Other than Walter’s, I’m pretty much a Sabrett dirty-water guy plus of course Nathan’s and Hebrew National.
I think the demand for capturing guest info could be to create a repeat customer within the app platform to connect them to businesses. That’s a good little profit move for businesses that have a profile in the app, but a bit too approachable for us cats. I’ve actually started getting notifications from open table that say “we see you like cocktails, check out these places.” I haven’t booked through those notifications but has kept me informed.
As far as it goes here in Chicago, some of the places to do app even when walk-in are high volume bars such as Three Dots & West Loop bars. The Meadowlark by Abe (ex Violet hour) actually dropped their Resy requirements a few weeks ago, walk in only. Chicago is a bit more chill compared to NYC heavy tourism & generally smaller spaces.
Yes, I do think, for now, this is very much a New York issue, and less so in other cities.
This topic immediately made me think of the Walker Inn, the speakeasy-ish, themed-cocktail-experience place in Koreatown here in LA that you invited me along to preview. They took reservations from the get-go, however long ago that was, but it didn’t seem to work out for them.
I remember trying to go back within a month or two of their opening and being unable to score a reservation on the app—then finally calling, getting a res that way, then showing up and finding the place half-empty during a prime hour on a weekend. It seemed that too many people were making reservations as placeholders and then not showing up, which made their 90-minute “experience” business model difficult to maintain.
In fact, they didn’t maintain it. Within a year the themed “experiences” were gone, and pretty soon the Walker Inn name (which had turned out to be ironic) was gone, too. I don’t know how much the reservation scheme had to do with the concept’s failure, but from my perspective the whole thing was sad. I wonder if it would work differently now.
Reservations make sense for a destination place that specialized in seated cocktail experiences. But you point out another confounding aspect of bar reservation systems. Often you can't get a reservation. Then, when you do get in, the place is half full with many open seats. This happened to us recently at a Greenwich Village bar. The doorman with the iPad told us there were no openings for three hours. We actually got in a half hour later (I pulled some strings) and the place was half-empty.
This is the problem that Tock was meant to solve.
The information-gathering aspect you describe certainly would seem to have the benefit of helping bars build loyalty via targeted promotion. But if potential patrons (with no strings to pull 😔) get turned away because reservations are being held in half-empty bars, that doesn’t seem beneficial to anyone.
I’m sure that strategies will evolve over time, and it sounds like a lot of spots are having success. Culturally, though, something is lost when drinking and spontaneity are decoupled, and when an experience that’s traditionally been more loosely timed than a meal gets curtailed because the tyranny of an app means it’s time to turn over your table.
Agreed.
We do not use any res services. We do encourage guests to contact us if they intend on arriving with a large group (5 or more) and we do have a limited reservation policy, we prefer the "come and go as you please" atmosphere of a bar. Call us old fashioned - or midwesty if you must.,
Come and go as your please is the ideal atmosphere for any bar, IMHO. It's worked for hundreds of years.
Thoroughly confounded by Boo Paterson, who loves Raines Law Room and hates Resy so she....makes extra work for Raines Law Room? This is the same woman who says with a straight face: "Well, it’s because I actually do give a shit about the people who work there." If you truly did care about this bar manager, maybe you could waste less of their time by using your own 10 fingers to input your name and email address into a website, rather than making the manager do it for you every single time?
My understanding is that Paterson is a valued regular at RLR and there are no hard feelings on the part of the bar. In fact, the bar owner suggested I speak to Paterson. The question isn't the effort. The question is the principle.
Sorry to have confounded you. The Raines staff are now my friends & so a text or email from me is no more work for them. To put your mind at rest, they were delighted by my contribution to Robert’s story & hailed my ‘analog booking’ on their socials.